Something I've never understood about the Epstein thing.

[LAS14]

Today a talking head said words to this effect... "We want the names of the men released and the internal memos released so the American people can determine their guilt." I'm pretty sure about the words "so the American people can determine their guilt." What happened to innocent until proven guilty? What happened to trials by jury? Just asking.

[Ocelot II]

1. A jury is an agent of the American people.

[usonian]

2. IANAL, but

Determination

The final resolution or conclusion of a controversy.

In legal use, determination usually implies the conclusion of a dispute or lawsuit by the rendering of a final decision.

After consideration of the facts, a determination is generally set forth by a court of justice or other type of formal decision maker, such as the head of an Administrative Agency.

Determination has been used synonymously with adjudication, award, decree, and judgment. A ruling is a judicial determination concerning matters, such as the admissibility of evidence or a judicial or an administrative interpretation of a statute or regulation.

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/determine

[dpibel]

3. Doesn't apply to the general public

I have no obligation to presume anyone innocent.

Because I have no say in their punishment or lack thereof.

The presumption of innocence is binding on those who mete out punishment, including government officials who have direct or indirect effects on prosecution. It's also binding on the members of a jury.

But think about it: OJ Simpson was not proven guilty. In fact, he was acquitted by a jury. Does that stop a great many people from knowing that he was guilty, guilty, guilty?

[Progressive dog]

4. Innocent until proven guilty

only applies to jurors.
If I watch several videos showing ICE shooting people without cause, I'm allowed to believe they are murderers. I can't punish them, but I don't have to pretend they didn't do it. Ive already determined their guilt in my mind.
As to Epstein, there were lots of victims but almost no justice. Only Ghislaine is in jail and probably not for long. The most notorious person in the Epstein files will probably pardon her so that she keeps her mouth shut.