Debunked: UN official's claim 14,000 Gazan babies could die in 48 hours was untrue
Source: Times of Israel
Debunked: UN official’s claim 14,000 Gazan babies could die in 48 hours was untrue
After a top UN official told the BBC yesterday that some 14,000 babies in Gaza could die in the next 48 hours if aid does not reach them in time, the British broadcaster clarifies that this claim was false and based on an incorrect interpretation of a report issued by the UN’s Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC).
Tom Fletcher, the UN’s under-secretary-general for humanitarian affairs, claimed yesterday on BBC Radio 4’s “Today” show: “There are 14,000 babies that will die in the next 48 hours unless we can reach them. I want to save as many as these 14,000 babies as we can in the next 48 hours.”
The claim was widely reported in international media outlets, including The Times of Israel, and was repeatedly cited by UK lawmakers during a House of Commons debate yesterday.
However, BBC now says that after asking the UN’s Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs for clarification, it turns out the remarks were based on an IPC report that warned that 14,100 severe cases of acute malnutrition were expected to occur between April 2025 and March 2026 among children aged between six months and five years.
Read more: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/debunked-un-officials-claim-14000-gazan-babies-could-die-in-48-hours-was-untrue/
BBC (which aired the original claim) also issued a correction of sorts.
When pressed on how he had arrived at that figure, he said there were "strong teams on the ground" operating in medical centres and schools - but did not provide further details.
The BBC later asked for clarification on the figure from the UN's Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (UNOCHA), which said: "We are pointing to the imperative of getting supplies in to save an estimated 14,000 babies suffering from severe acute malnutrition in Gaza, as the IPC partnership has warned about. We need to get the supplies in as soon as possible, ideally within the next 48 hours."
snip==================
When pressed on the figures at a news conference, UNOCHA spokesman Jens Laerke said: "For now let me just say that we know for a fact that there are babies who are in urgent life-saving need of these supplements that need to come in because their mothers are unable to feed themselves."
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crk2264nrn2o
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AZLD4Candidate
(6,647 posts)For those who want to know, here is how people here reacted to this bullshit, showing that we will believe anything anti-Israel.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143462299
Richard D
(9,856 posts)... Their sincerely worded apologies will be flooding in.
iemanja
(56,024 posts)For blocking all humanitarian aid and firing at diplomats, not to mention targeting young children? Bibi is the one who needs to apologize, but that would require a conscience and human decency.
lapucelle
(20,236 posts)An apology might also be due to the families of the Jewish couple murdered in cold blood last by a loon who yelled "Free, free Palestine" as he was being arrested.
I wonder if the "activist" had heard the UN spokesman's propaganda and decided that the solution was to murder random Jews.
Beastly Boy
(12,507 posts)Deplorable.
iemanja
(56,024 posts)Last edited Thu May 22, 2025, 12:51 PM - Edit history (1)
But you don’t condemn the extermination of Gazans by the Israeli govt. Side1) calling out the reality of what’s going on in Gaza, 2) killing tens thousands and announcing plans to kill all 2 million Gazans. It shouldn’t be hard to figure out which of those two acts is actually deplorable.
Richard D
(9,856 posts)iemanja
(56,024 posts)That is a fact. That is not delusional. You are able to provide no facts so resort to name calling.
Richard D
(9,856 posts)Hence, delusional.
iemanja
(56,024 posts)and rid it of every last Palestinian. That is 2 million people, and that indeed constitutes genocide by any definition. I didn't use that term for a long time, but Bibi's recent pronouncements leave no doubt.
You might as well deny that the grass is green. It makes as much sense as denying what is happening in Gaza.
Richard D
(9,856 posts)... And more, wanted to believe the lie about 44, 000 children dying of starvation. It was a total lie, of course. And yet believed instantly without question or doubt.
How many other cherished lies do you believe that you don't know are lies? It's a rhetorical question, of course. Lies are believed because those who believe them want to belive them.
iemanja
(56,024 posts)If I had thought about the claim, I would have thought the timeline seemed exaggerated. As another poster in this thread made clear, the flaw of that UN announcement was in fact the timeline. Israel has starved and killed thousands of Palestinian children, but not within 48 hours.
If I were you, I'd be careful of accusing others of lying. This post of a news article makes clear what Israeli's stated policy is. https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=3454326
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/06/hamas-israel-hunger-war-in-gaza
The facts are clear. Your claims that no such policy is taking place are demonstratively false.
And this is the evidence for the IDF's targeting of children. I've posted it for you many times, but you--for reasons only you know--avoid informing yourself.
Old Testament Libera
(86 posts)Just plain garden-variety murder? It's certainly not a war, an actual war implies two sides. A one-sided slaughter is not a war.
Yes, Hamas is bad, and I am not anti-Semitic. However, the Bibi government is as bad for Israel as the Trump government is bad for the US. And the Bibi government is the main reason Israel is losing international support.
Richard D
(9,856 posts)Remember how it started and who started it, and the brutal mass murder perpetrated by Hamas and Gazans.
If it was one-sided, i.e. if Hamas surrendered and released the hostages, the war would end that very same day.
Murder was what happened on Oct 7. Murder is what happened to the poor hostages that were shot in the head by Hamas.
I just don't understand people. Hamas has sworn to kill every Jew. Yet Israel is expected to do what? Surrender to Hamas? Allow them to regroup, re-arm, and attack again and again? Sure seems like that is the goal of much of the world.
To this day, new terror tunnels are being found, weapons caches are being discovered, and Jews are being killed. Shall we roll over and take it? Sure sounds like that is what is expected of us. That won't happen.
This war needs to be won decisively--so completely that there will never be a chance of another atrocity being committed on the Jewish people.
And yes, Gaza needs to be reformed. The public education system there is designed to create young Jihadis. That must change. A huge percentage of money (many billions of dollars) and goods being given to Gaza is going directly to enrich and supply Hamas. That needs to change.
As I have said, Israel never started a war, and they have never lost one. That won't change. We literally have nowhere else to go other than that tiny piece of land the size of New Jersey in the midst of a billion Arab people, many of whom want only our destruction. It's not about the land either. From 1948 onward, we tried to negotiate. All the negotiation agreements were broken.
In 2005, total control of Gaza was returned to the Gazans. They could have built a modern paradise there, but instead, they chose to build an empire of terror with their sole goal the destruction of Israel, our indigenous homeland for 3500 years.
Can there be peace? Prior to Oct 7, there could have been. They fucked up badly, and now they are paying the price. It's a heavy price, for sure, but what options, exactly, are there for Israel? I don't see any other than what is happening now.
A mythological two-state solution? That possibility died on October 7. They slaughtered many of the best of us, most of whom were people of peace who dedicated their lives to peaceful coexistence. They murdered their babies with their bare hands. Cut fetuses out of their mothers' wombs. Burned families alive.
They murdered not only this generation, but all future generations of those that they killed. That is not something that can be forgotten, ever.
Forgive me for not having virtue signaling compassion here. We've tried that for thousands of years, and still, they want to destroy us.
Recently, a Hamas document was found stating that the reason for the Oct 7 pogrom was to stifle the Abraham Accords with Saudi Arabia and other countries. There is still hope for that.
People reflexively believe the propaganda coming out of Qatar. The lie about the 44,000 starving children is the most recent and most egregious example. Who didn't believe it? Only Jews, it seems. And even though it was debunked, people still believe it. Why?
There is a lesson in that lie that few will be brave enough to consider: If you believed that lie, what other lies were told that are believed? This is a really important question, for that certainly was only one lie among many.
iemanja
(56,024 posts)Why did Netanyahu work so hard to undermine it? Why did he ensure Qatari funds were funneled to Hamas to undermine the possibility of a two-state solution? And given how much loss of life Hamas has inflicted on Israel, why aren't you angry at the Israeli government for propping up Hamas?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
and this: https://www.972mag.com/netanyahu-hamas-october-7-adam-raz/
Old Testament Libera
(86 posts)Remember the immortal words of David Ben-Gurion to the Palestinians:
"We have no solution. You shall continue to live like dogs and anybody who wishes may leave."
AZLD4Candidate
(6,647 posts)iemanja
(56,024 posts)You want to make the discussion small because the situation in Gaza is indefensible.
AZLD4Candidate
(6,647 posts)This topic is about the UN lying and getting caught. . .again.
MarineCombatEngineer
(15,557 posts)then distract, hijack, etc. the topic.
That old saying goes, if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.
AZLD4Candidate
(6,647 posts)Israel is evil and nothing will make me think otherwise."
Confirmation bias is both on our side and the MAGAt side and it's just as destructive and counter productive on either side.
iemanja
(56,024 posts)but I won't allow it. To do so is morally wrong.
AZLD4Candidate
(6,647 posts)Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #18)
iemanja This message was self-deleted by its author.
womanofthehills
(9,811 posts)Such low protein diets make for sickly kids - let alone all the toxic contaminants in the air from the bombing. Is cancer going to skyrocket in Gaza like it did with 911 responders?
A little kid in Gaza on Twitter is asked what he wishes for . His answer is a piece of fruit.
Intractable
(1,050 posts)lapucelle
(20,236 posts)on Britain's most popular morning radio show. That lie went out to millions of people and became viral to the point that it was discussed in Parliament.
And last night two Jews were murdered in cold blood leaving an event at the Jewish Museum.
Intractable
(1,050 posts)Sure, they exaggerated. Anyone can see that.
But what of all the lies Bibi told. The ethnic cleansing of Gaza was the plan from the start.
It's a shame two people were killed at the museum. 50,000 dead in Gaza.
From Google:
Here's a summary of the casualties based on reports:
Gaza: Over 50,000 Palestinians have been reported killed in Gaza since October 2023, with the total number including those presumed dead under rubble potentially exceeding 61,700.
West Bank: In the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, reports indicate that at least 905 Palestinians have been killed, including 181 children, since October 2023.
Reliability and Controversy:
Gaza Health Ministry Figures: The Gaza Health Ministry (GHM) is a primary source for casualty figures in Gaza. Their figures are cited by various organizations, including the UN and media outlets.
lapucelle
(20,236 posts)and then attempt to support a debunked claim with irrelevant "data" from the Hamas GHM sourced on Google without a citation or link.
But by all means, spin away. It's amusing to watch.
Response to lapucelle (Reply #11)
Post removed
Beastly Boy
(12,507 posts)Only by deflecting from it.
If you have nothing to say about it, don't say it. And if you want to discuss something else, start your own thread.
lapucelle
(20,236 posts) Intractable
(1,050 posts)The only thing you have convinced me is that if Israel does it, it's okay with you.
I find your waving at me to be highly insincere. It shall not be returned.
lapucelle
(20,236 posts)Posing irrelevant questions and attempting to deflect via straw men are errors in reasoning.
Since you don't like the wave and the donut, let's try this in recognition of the logical flaws in your methods of *argument*.
Intractable
(1,050 posts)It pales in comparison to the number of actual dead. That's real.
But, your narrow focus on the UN lying about a number is what's important to you.
Such moral superiority.
lapucelle
(20,236 posts)
iemanja
(56,024 posts)Netanyahu has sworn to level Gaza and every last Palestinian with it. Quibbling about the exact number already killed is absurd when he’s announced plans to kill all 2 million Gazans.
Richard D
(9,856 posts)lapucelle
(20,236 posts)not someone who posted an LBN story about the debunking of the UN spokeman's propaganda and an additional link to a story about the BBC confronting the UN propagandist's false claim in real time, the BBC issuing a correction for what the UN propagandist said, and a different UN spokesman being forced to address and back away from his colleague's made up claim.
Here's some more "post count" for you, lapucelle.
Talk about a way to "lose an argument". 
iemanja
(56,024 posts)Last edited Sun May 25, 2025, 03:42 AM - Edit history (1)
and annihilate the entire population of 2 million? Does that not bother you?
JustAnotherGen
(35,208 posts)What if they had NOT been diplomatic staff? Regardless - two human beings were wiped out on our soil over BLOOD LIBEL.
stillcool
(33,940 posts)not that it matters at all, because well...who cares?
lapucelle
(20,236 posts)"14,000 babies could die within the next 48 hours" is nothing like "There could be 14,000 cases of severe malnutrition among children within the next year".
Yeah, so, the timeline was wrong.
The demographic was wrong.
And the prognosis was wrong.
What part of the claim was *legitimate*?
stillcool
(33,940 posts)Read the report, when it comes out? Contact the BBC?
lapucelle
(20,236 posts)and the prognosis as “death within 48 hours”.
Maybe the UN spokesman should have read the report before he went on the airwaves to spread propaganda.
The BBC challenged the claim in real time and issued a correction, so there is no need to contact them, unless of course you’d like to advise them to screen their guests more carefully.
lapucelle
(20,236 posts) Intractable
(1,050 posts)The fact remains that Israel is severely restricting aid to Gaza, and people are dying because of it. And it's just fine by you.
Beastly Boy
(12,507 posts)that take their lies for granted. This affects your credibility. They make your own arguments less legitimate and more unbelievable.
How is this OK with you? Why doesn't this raise any objections from you?
Intractable
(1,050 posts)and terrorism.
Stopping this war won't stop antisemitism. But continuing the war will make it worse.
Beastly Boy
(12,507 posts)I am sorry, but the logic of this premise completely escapes me.
Intractable
(1,050 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(15,557 posts)very interesting.
Ya know, if HAMAs had just honored the cease fire in place and stayed on their side of the border, maybe, instead of stealing food and supplies, hiding their C&C, weapons systerms among the civilian pop., you know, hospitals, schools, civilian apt. buildings, using the citizens of Gaza as human shields, etc., we wouldn't even be debating this, but here we are.
Face the cold hard facts, HAMAs, Hizbollah, Iran, etc. don't give a rat's ass about civilians getting injured or killed, in fact, they revel in it because they use it for propaganda purposes to turn the world against Israel, the more injured or dead Palestinians, the better for them, and I do gotta hand to HAMAs' propaganda arm, they've succeeded beyond their wildest dreams, now they're demanding a cease fire, the purpose of to regroup, re-arm and attack again and again until they've reached their stated goal, the elimination of Israel and all Jews world wide.
AZLD4Candidate
(6,647 posts)In other news, up is down, day is night, paper is plastic, and wet is dry.
Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #80)
PufPuf23 This message was self-deleted by its author.
MarineCombatEngineer
(15,557 posts)the attempted deflection from the actual thread.
Great job there.
Intractable
(1,050 posts)Your reply is highly impertinent, unlike mine.
MarineCombatEngineer
(15,557 posts)and I said good job.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Maybe try sticking to the thread instead of trying, very poorly at that, to distract from the original topic.
Have a great Thrusday.
Intractable
(1,050 posts)
Have one yourself. You seem to like this war.
MarineCombatEngineer
(15,557 posts)Let me tell you something, you saying I must like this war is complete bullshit, I've seen war up close and personal and I hate war, so take your little snide remark and place...............oh, never mind, your definitely not worth my time.
Intractable
(1,050 posts)and we have the argument winner. He is victorious.
AZLD4Candidate
(6,647 posts)especially when one side refuses to accept their information is based on a lie.
Mysterian
(5,640 posts)The UN has a severe credibility problem.
Intractable
(1,050 posts)Mysterian
(5,640 posts)Reading comprehension issue?
Intractable
(1,050 posts)Mysterian
(5,640 posts)Please try again.
Intractable
(1,050 posts)
Kid Berwyn
(20,509 posts)Five-month-old Suwar Ashur, one of hundreds of Palestinian children diagnosed with malnutrition, receives treatment at the Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis, Gaza, Palestine on May 1, 2025. (Photo: Doaa Albaz/Anadolu via Getty Images)
Source: https://www.commondreams.org/news/gaza-starvation-deaths-soar
Richard D
(9,856 posts)gab13by13
(28,296 posts)with that said, Yesterday on MSNBC, I believe, they showed videos of starving kids in Gaza. They showed several truck loads of food that were ready to deliver food but were stopped from delivering it. It is going to take a huge effort on everyone's part to keep people from starving to death in Gaza, whatever the number.
People should also be enraged about Krasnov saying that Gaza will be the Riviera of the Middle East once Gazans are moved to another country.
AloeVera
(2,866 posts)What purpose does that serve except to lead us to believe the REAL lie: Israel's claim that there is no starvation in Gaza. That is not only a lie but a genocidal, cruel and inhumane one. It contradicts indisputably the evidence of our own eyes as well as the findings and reports of the IPC, the UN and numerous other international NGOs.
Who are you gonna believe?
I believe the UN made an honest mistake. Is that so hard to fathom that they misinterpreted some data? These people want to save lives. They are not numbers folks. The starvation would have continued, they had to drive home the urgency.
Further, the mistake is not the story and nor is it actually wrong. There ARE thousands of kids in Gaza that may now be on the brink of death. See post # 41.
Those who want Israel to "win" - meaning ethnically cleanse and starve Gaza to make it happen - will jump on any "mistake" to discredit, de-legitimize and cast doubt on both the starvation and the UN. It's a well-established tactic.
Just my opinion, ymmv.
Beastly Boy
(12,507 posts)and contradicting themselves the next day?
If it's not lying, it must be covering their lying asses after being caught lying.
AloeVera
(2,866 posts)Last edited Thu May 22, 2025, 02:00 PM - Edit history (1)
Tip of the iceberg.
3,700 kids at acute levels of malnutrition last month - a doubling over February. A sharp rise like that is a telltale sign of impending famine. It is likely to be much higher now. Bakeries have been closed for well over a month and food kitchens for a few weeks. These acutely malnourished children may only have 48+ hours for all we know.
So maybe not 14,000, but isn't 3,700+++ bad enough?
It's not a numbers game, and gleeful gotcha's about the UN only serve a very nefarious agenda. These are children's lives that hang in the balance.
An urgent plea for help - from people who care about preventing children from dying agonizing deaths - is now being presented as a lie by some people, or twisted into something nefarious or "fabulist".
There is nothing "fabulist" about bringing attention to the horrific possibility that thousands of children will die if Israel continues to be allowed to enforce its medieval cold-blood murder siege.
To ignore the real story while propagandizing the UN mistake is disturbing and serves Netanyahu's agenda of ridding Palestinians from Gaza, annexing and settling very well. I'm sure no one here would want to be complicit in that.
On edit:
3700 figure is for March, not April. A near-doubling over February. The rate of increase may have been even higher over two months. But applying just the same doubling would arrive at 14,000 currently.
Intractable
(1,050 posts)Well said!
People here have tried to keep a very narrow focus on the UN's error, which is a distraction from the mass murder of Palestinians.
lapucelle
(20,236 posts)Debunking a lie told by a spokesman of an international organization is a good thing.
AloeVera
(2,866 posts)Last edited Thu May 22, 2025, 12:29 PM - Edit history (1)
Did anyone notice that?
Or that there are actually thousands of children that ARE in danger of dying? Less than 14,000 - maybe only half, maybe a little less, maybe a little more - but geez, should they not matter?
Or is it just the mistake by the UN that matters?
Beastly Boy
(12,507 posts)Make the number up as high as what makes you content.
It is only a matter of time that I will eventually be impressed by the numbers enough to notice them.
The other thing I notice is that instead of swearing by the UN numbers, you are now calling them a "mistake".
Did you make a "mistake" when you were getting outraged by their fake numbers and citing them as god's honest truth for days?
iemanja
(56,024 posts)Last edited Sat May 24, 2025, 11:59 PM - Edit history (1)
While ignoring--even defending--Netanyahu's plan to wipe 2 million Gazans off the face of the planet.
AloeVera
(2,866 posts)De-legitimizing the UN is a must for Israel to "win". Or what genocidaires and ethnic cleansers in Netanyahu's government consider "winning".
So sad and dismaying to see it play out here.
And yes, it is a distraction but a dangerous one. If it succeeds it bodes ill for Palestinians.
MarineCombatEngineer
(15,557 posts)If HAMAs hadn't broken the ceasefire in place and stayed on their side of the border, then we wouldn't even be talking about this, but certain people here just have to try to deflect from the current thread and try to hijack it.
Case in point, your posts here.
Do try to stay on topic, although I highly doubt you will.
Gotta go to work, have a great Thur. and a great upcoming weekend.
AloeVera
(2,866 posts)Here I was astonished you finally came over to the side of light.
Israel under Netanyahu vilifies itself. Is condemning the actions of a villain really vilifying? Only if you're on the side of the villain.
We should all be glad there aren't as MANY kids in danger of starving, not that the UN made a mistak so that it will be easier to ignore or sweep under the carpet the fact that there are still many THOUSANDS of kids acutely malnourished and likely to die wirh the paltry aid allowed in now.
But that's just me. Your side will continue to push the narrative that helps you achieve your goals. I can only hope that in spite of that, there is some convergence from Netanyahu's goals, now made horribly explicit though long- hidden.
Jose Garcia
(3,203 posts)madaboutharry
(41,934 posts)Now a lie can travel all the way around the world the moment someone hits send.
republianmushroom
(20,062 posts)stillcool
(33,940 posts)and the time-line wrong. What a disgusting piece of crap the UN is for accurately saying 14,000 children will die, but had to go and put it into an immediate time-line. Israel, or the United States should 'take care of' the UN, the way they take care of children.
AloeVera
(2,866 posts)And gets to the heart of the matter.
stillcool
(33,940 posts) EX500rider
(11,855 posts)AZLD4Candidate
(6,647 posts)To some, the only thing Israel can do right would be to completely dissolve.
Beastly Boy
(12,507 posts)Last edited Fri May 23, 2025, 05:23 PM - Edit history (1)
When I came to the interview, I was told that the amount of $14,000 was absolutely accurate, but reflected an annual salary and not a two-day compensation, and that the amount was stated in a more immediate time-line to convey a sense of urgency in filling the position, not necessarily as terms of employment. When I objected, I was told that I am twisting their bona fide offer into something nefarious.
When I pointed out that their false advertisement amounts to a lie, I was told, with outrage and sarcasm, that I am trying to "take care" of their enterprise the way ASPCA "takes care" of unadoptable puppies.
Needless to say, I told them that they can choke on their disgusting piece of crap.
Torchlight
(4,695 posts)I observe the exploitation of subtle distinctions to dodge larger accountabilities and drive deeper wedges.
Intentions aside, that which is accurate is accurate.
If it's not accurate, it's simply inaccurate and should be dismissed.
AloeVera
(2,866 posts)Or more.
In March, 3,700 kids were identified as having acute malnutrition. The increase was double over February.
At that rate of increase, there are likely to be at least 14,000 kids with either acute or severe malnutrition by now. Could be many more after an 11 week siege.
That horrifying fact is going to get lost in the UN bashing.
I guess it's more important or satisfying to try to discredit the UN than face the reality of what is happening in Gaza.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/27/gaza-on-brink-of-catastrophe-as-aid-runs-out-and-prices-soar-groups-warn
AZLD4Candidate
(6,647 posts)Gaze government.
From the article: "Before the war, her family would eat a large meal of meat, stuffed vegetables or other traditional dishes on Fridays, Najjar said. “Now we eat peas and rice. We never ate canned peas before the war. Only in this war that has destroyed our lives.”
Hamas attacked Israel on Oct 7th. That's what started this war. After the attack, people in Gaza celebrated like a major victory in war had been achieved.
Japan attacked us on Dec 7th. That's what started that war. After that attack, people in Japan celebrated like a major victory in war had been achieved.
Japan decimated Nanjing in 1937 after attacking China for no reason. After that attack, people in Japan celebrated the rape and murder of 300,000 Chinese.
At the end of WW2, the blockade in Japan had people near starvation and were down to eating grass and bark on trees. If Japan had not attacked China and the US, they would still eat large meals.
Now, if Hamas, which is the ELECTED government of Gaza, had not attacked Israel, this person would still eat their large meals and not rice and peas.
Moral of the story: Hamas and Japan caused this suffering.
BTW, I fail to feel bad for the narcissism of "we used to eat better than many other people and now we eat like poor people."
iemanja
(56,024 posts)Last edited Sun May 25, 2025, 01:53 AM - Edit history (1)
Netanyahu in particular carried the cash himself. He supported Hamas to undermine the Palestinian Authority and with it a two-state solution. You have to know that, yet you repeat the same propaganda about Hamas being "elected."
Netanyahu is more responsible for Hamas then the current population of Gaza, who has had no opportunity to vote at all.
Then there is the absurdity of arguing about numbers from the Hamas health ministry when Netanyahu has sworn to level Gaza and kill every last Palestinian living there. That is 2 million human beings, yet Israel's defenders here can't manage one word of concern about those lives. Not one.
Using Oct 7 as an excuse for the eradication of 2 million people is simply false. As tragic as that event was, it doesn't justify full scale annihilation of a people. Oct 7 is the current Israeli governments pretext for genocide--and it is genocide. That's what killing 2 million Gazans--all of them--amounts to.
AZLD4Candidate
(6,647 posts)9/11 didn't matter because it's us.
Enough of this BS. Besides, do you have cross referenced objective sources that Israel supported the election of a sworn enemy?
iemanja
(56,024 posts)and this: https://www.972mag.com/netanyahu-hamas-october-7-adam-raz/
Do a Google search, there are many more sources on the matter.
I would think you'd be pissed off that Bibi propped up Hamas given how much damage and loss of life Hamas has inflicted on Israel.
I didn't say Oct 7 didn't count. It most certainly did, but it doesn't justify Israel's current actions which have long since passed retribution for that awful event. Nor did 9/11 justify the havoc raised on Iraq and Afghanistan. It doesn't justify Abu Ghraib, anymore than Oct. 7 justifies the routine torture of Palestinians. I refuse to justify murderous foreign policy when it's my own country. I'm certainly not going to do so for a foreign nation. The lives lost on Oct 7 are important, as are the hostages, but not more so than the 2 million Gazans that Bibi has sworn to eradicate: Not Hamas--Gaza--and all of its residents.
The continual propaganda that Gazans "elected" Hamas when they haven't had an election in 19 years is meant to deceive.
The war has long since stopped being about Hamas. It's now a land grab and full out genocide. I didn't use that word for a long time, but Netanyahu's recent pronouncements make clear it is indeed the case.
Eko
(9,283 posts)Clarified their mistake.
Beastly Boy
(12,507 posts)Eko
(9,283 posts)At least they didn't kill a bunch of Ambulance drivers with their mistake.
Beastly Boy
(12,507 posts)Eko
(9,283 posts)I call it putting things in perspective.
Beastly Boy
(12,507 posts)I am not impressed with what you call it.
Eko
(9,283 posts)I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt but it is possible he was lying. If you notice I also said that Israel killing a bunch of ambulance drivers was a mistake and not "Lying". I do my best to be fair and impartial that is why both were a mistake. Was Israel lying about the ambulance drivers or was it a mistake?
Beastly Boy
(12,507 posts)Pfft, some people appear to be more equal than others, right?
Orwell is spinning in his grave.
Eko
(9,283 posts)You didn't have to deflect to avoid it.
Beastly Boy
(12,507 posts)And you know why. You are not fooling anyone by asking loaded questions that have nothing to do with the subject at hand . I have seen this transparent move being used too many times in the past to not be immediately recognized for what it is - a cheap trick that is intended to insult my intelligence, nothing more.
Eko
(9,283 posts)The reason you wont answer it is because it would show you give the benefit of the doubt only on one side and use your
negative bias to determine your answer for the other side. Even when the other side is only just critical of your side. For me, and many others, saying someone is lying and not just making a mistake takes evidence, not bias. Unless you can find somewhere I said Israel is lying and you wont because it doesn't exist.
Beastly Boy
(12,507 posts)Between the two, I am going with my reason, thank you very much.
have fun with reasoning with yourself. You might have even more fun if you were to build an actual real life straw man to reason with.
Eko
(9,283 posts) Beastly Boy
(12,507 posts)Did I neglect to suggest a life size anatomically correct strawman?
Sorry, my bad.
Eko
(9,283 posts)But you somehow neglected to show it.
Interesting.
Eko
(9,283 posts)"Pfft, some people appear to be more equal than others, right?"
Did I ever say that?
Was that ever a argument I made?
I specifically said I give the benefit of the doubt to the UN and Israel, yet you accused me of a position I never took. Textbook example of a strawman.
It always fun with you.
Eko
PufPuf23
(9,411 posts)have died with more to follow, not to mention those that are physically or maimed for life.
The survivors will be another angry and hopeless generation.
Some may find solace in "Let God sort them out".
Beastly Boy
(12,507 posts)You know, playing games with their numbers to solicit moral outrage and distract from their incompetence will not deliver aid to the children, nor will it save a single life.
So what is your point?
PufPuf23
(9,411 posts)Made no judgement on UN and that specific spokesman.
Two weeks is a matter of timeline.
Dead and maimed children are dead and maimed children in either case.
The horror of October 7 was evil; the continued actions and stated intents of the Israeli government and IDF against helpless and defeated people is inhumane.
Why play games with numbers and words at all?
Beastly Boy
(12,507 posts)It was all about UN's poor choice of disinformation that backfired on them and its subsequent very clumsy attempt at coverup.
And it was a matter of 363 days, not two weeks. Technically, still a matter of timeline, but in a very bad way for the UN.
And I think you got my point: playing games with their numbers to solicit moral outrage and distract from their incompetence will not deliver aid to the children, nor will it save a single life.