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wonkwest

(463 posts)

150. You're misguided

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 01:37 AM

Jun 2018

I'm gay. I dislike Islam a great deal. I have my pretty justified reasons. When I've expressed this, I've been called an Islamaphobe.

I do not tolerate oppression just because, "It's their culture." I find that oddly more bigoted, actually. A kind of, "Well, they don't know any better."

Nope. I'm a liberal. I believe in liberal values for everyone. Women have choice and equality. LGBTers have rights. We all have or should have freedom to believe or not believe as we see fit. Straight men of one religion don't get to punish or beat down anyone who disobeys their dictum.

Islam has trouble with these things. Even many portions of liberal western Islam.

I loathe Christian conservatives. I get to loathe any form of Islam that is similar.

Calling me a name about it doesn't change my mind.

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Denmark bans wearing the burqa in public [View all] brooklynite May 2018 OP

Men telling women what to wear, yet again. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #1

But, aren't the women wearing that covering which packman May 2018 #4

Sure, but you don't need men telling women what not to wear either. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #5

Agree 100% - BUT, Reality is what it is packman May 2018 #61

It will harm women more than help them. RW Islamophobes are rejoicing. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #75

You are saying the husbands will forbid women from leaving their homes. You admit Doodley Jun 2018 #270

I agree with you. Also, who knows what someone can hide under a burqa demosincebirth May 2018 #125

True but then it might radicalize those men treestar Jun 2018 #222

What men are you talking about? oberliner Jun 2018 #164

The majority male Danish Paliament (63%). I looked it up before I posted. Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2018 #174

The men should have recused themselves from voting oberliner Jun 2018 #176

It is amazing how laws have no effect treestar Jun 2018 #221

As a woman, I have mixed feelings about the subject PatSeg May 2018 #12

That's exactly how I feel. Nay May 2018 #19

Yes. treestar Jun 2018 #223

This is true PatSeg Jun 2018 #237

I think Muslim men should wear blindfolds YessirAtsaFact May 2018 #68

meh. marble falls May 2018 #85

Especially since they are the ones inflamed by seeing a woman's face or hair dhol82 May 2018 #126

Good analogy treestar Jun 2018 #224

It's always the women who have restrictions placed on them YessirAtsaFact Jun 2018 #271

In a western country with any sort of freedom such laws against wearing a burqa should not exist. Demsrule86 May 2018 #112

I basically agree. The only reason would be policing, Hortensis Jun 2018 #247

I can see that about security. I completely agree. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #337

Interesting article, thanks. I hope that school Hortensis Jun 2018 #347

I hope so too. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #349

Denmark's parliament is majority women oberliner Jun 2018 #162

Nope. I looked it up before I posted that. 37% women in 2017, down from a high of 39% Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2018 #173

That's still a pretty high precentage oberliner Jun 2018 #175

Sumptuary laws are ridiculous. malthaussen May 2018 #2

This is the most weird vote in Denmark ever... TomVilmer May 2018 #9

I support this. The burqa, and any of the other garments whose purpose is Squinch May 2018 #3

+1 eom LittleGirl May 2018 #6

"wouldn't allow people to require others ...". Your post takes away women's rights. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #7

Oh, fer fuck's sake. Just stop. Squinch May 2018 #10

You want different law. Yes. Let's stop men telling women what not to wear and what to wear. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #11

Give it up. Squinch May 2018 #13

+100 .. n/t obnoxiousdrunk May 2018 #66

Your making my head hurt Kilgore May 2018 #122

I supposed it's everyone's imagination leftynyc May 2018 #17

The law takes away the right of men to force women to wear those hot, uncomfortable pnwmom May 2018 #18

No. Does not. It FINES the WOMAN 134 Euros. Read the OP again. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #20

The Euros will come from the pocket of the man who is forcing the woman to hide herself. nt pnwmom May 2018 #25

You hope. And you hope there isn't violence as a result. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #27

The man who would commit violence against a woman because she had been fined pnwmom May 2018 #28

Now you are starting to get it. Punish the man, not the woman. Limit the perp, not the victim. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #35

Since the fine is being paid by the man, it punishes him. pnwmom May 2018 #40

You presume & hope. But the better law would directly address the coercion & not take women's rights Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #43

You presume and hope that all women wearing it are doing it out of free will. pnwmom May 2018 #44

No. I have written the opposite. Don't attempt to stuff words in my mouth. It not honorable debating Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #45

"nothing"? Reread what I wrote. Better laws go after the coercive men. The coercion is the problem. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #46

What would this better law be that would go after the men? How would it be enforced? n/t pnwmom May 2018 #59

It would have to make police act on every complaint & investigate any allegation of coercion. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #80

And what woman coerced to wear these things would be brave enough to make an allegation? pnwmom May 2018 #84

Some women are coerced by mother in laws and surrounding women. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #86

Banning the public wearing of these things supports women who'd rather not wear them. pnwmom May 2018 #94

On the surface it supports them. In practice it will harm & restrict more than it supports. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #100

It unnerved me because it's dehumanizing. That particular woman was a cipher, pnwmom May 2018 #102

The odd thing is the conditioning treestar Jun 2018 #229

I agree completely this is not freedom but oppression... Demsrule86 May 2018 #118

Somebody has to be brave enough treestar Jun 2018 #266

Not officially treestar Jun 2018 #225

Muslims in Denmark wearing burkas are newly converted... TomVilmer May 2018 #39

No, the law allows for wearing things over the face because of weather conditions. n/t pnwmom May 2018 #42

Yes - but who is to decide when it is properly cold! TomVilmer May 2018 #47

Unfortunately, in Denmark and pretty much everywhere else, ... most likely a man. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #87

One law leads to another treestar Jun 2018 #234

So basically you think the Danes should allow men to dehumanize their women, GulfCoast66 May 2018 #142

No. And no. Take an aspirin and reread when you are feeling more capable. Duh. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2018 #154

That is your take. What gives you the right to decide about other people's religion? Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #158

I have no interest in others religion GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #172

You falsely presume my experience. I too have encountered people wearing burkas. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #21

You being unnerved is not sufficient reason to deny a woman the right to wear all-covering clothing. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #36

I'm not convinced that any woman would choose to wear those hot, uncomfortable, pnwmom May 2018 #37

I'm not covinced any would choose except exceedingly few. But it is their right. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #41

That can be an underlying difficult issue for feminism treestar Jun 2018 #226

It's Not Just Hot Me. May 2018 #54

The "rule" went away quite a while ago, unless you're someone like Melania and Ivanka, pnwmom May 2018 #71

Good Me. May 2018 #79

Thanks for putting that together treestar Jun 2018 #230

My wife's niece works in Saudi Arabia currently and has to wear the OnDoutside May 2018 #105

I've read descriptions of what it's like to wear them and it's awful. pnwmom May 2018 #110

Yes, and she said that as soon as they get home, it's straight OnDoutside Jun 2018 #151

Some women choose the veil. What will happen is women in countries who do this won't be allowed out. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #157

Are those women choosing to wear it? fallout87 May 2018 #49

You don't strengthen women's rights by legislating away those rights. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #50

You seem to be good at telling women what to do and think dbackjon May 2018 #82

Nope. I'm telling the predominantly male Danish Parliament they should stop. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #83

Female headcoverings have nothing to do with women's choice - but furthering male domination dbackjon May 2018 #90

I also support this. In Europe/America world Muslim men dress like westerners. Coventina May 2018 #14

Men telling women what not to wear is misogny. So is men telling women what to wear. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #23

Not buying what you're selling. Coventina May 2018 #33

But he certainly is pushing it hard. I'll take that Squinch May 2018 #55

Faux liberalism at its finest. Coventina May 2018 #56

There is a new community near where i work. Squinch May 2018 #58

Exactly. Not to mention that those who claim to do so "willingly" eissa May 2018 #64

It is tough to tell at what point a human being does not know their own mind treestar Jun 2018 #239

That is a different thing treestar Jun 2018 #227

This isn't about annoying Muslims. Millions of Muslim women wear western clothing. Coventina Jun 2018 #241

What about when there is a government that can decide that treestar Jun 2018 #242

Governments make decency laws all the time. Coventina Jun 2018 #246

That's because of who is in the government. treestar Jun 2018 #250

Then we would no longer be living in a free society and I would flee to one that was. Coventina Jun 2018 #252

The reason we are a free society treestar Jun 2018 #254

Our government has had to legislate in such areas many times. Coventina Jun 2018 #257

None of that is relevant to the issue and involves other issues treestar Jun 2018 #258

A hairshirt doesn't keep people from interacting with you. Coventina Jun 2018 #262

They can talk treestar Jun 2018 #274

Yes it absolutely does keep from social interaction. Coventina Jun 2018 #277

How do they prevent them from talking to other people? treestar Jun 2018 #278

Please read up on the science of communication Coventina Jun 2018 #279

Then being on the telephone is just as oppressive treestar Jun 2018 #281

Your comparisons are way off. Telephones enable a limited form of communication Coventina Jun 2018 #285

It is a choice, in the western nations, she does not have to wear the treestar Jun 2018 #287

If she wants that choice, she has no business is a free society. Coventina Jun 2018 #291

someone else wearing it does not treestar Jun 2018 #292

Yes it absolutely does. Again, read up on the science of communication. n/t Coventina Jun 2018 #293

It does not impact on your freedom not to wear one. treestar Jun 2018 #295

But facial expression IS required to understand meaning. Ask ANY psychologist. Coventina Jun 2018 #299

I am not rationalizing barbarism treestar Jun 2018 #308

I'm not oversimplifying anything. Coventina Jun 2018 #317

I find your comment horrifying... what you suggest would not create any sort of free society... Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #338

Well, I find your attitude horrifying, that it is OK to normalize a garment that does nothing Coventina Jun 2018 #342

Are you horrified at very high heels? treestar Jun 2018 #357

Yes, I am. n/t Coventina Jun 2018 #363

Last time I checked... GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #369

In Western countries, and not arrested for that? treestar Jun 2018 #373

This message was self-deleted by its author GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #382

It is about male domination treestar Jun 2018 #228

It has nothing to do with climate. I live in Arizona and have traveled Coventina Jun 2018 #245

Ski masks in the extreme cold? treestar Jun 2018 #251

I stated elsewhere in the thread that exceptions should be made for weather and health conditions. Coventina Jun 2018 #253

Yep. Punishing women for men's "weaknesses" eissa May 2018 #15

The law FINES the WOMEN. Why are you happy to see that? Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #22

Buying into your own subjugation has a price. eom eissa May 2018 #24

Please don't blame the victim. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #26

Exactly right...the husband or father forces the women to wear the burqa or they sit home... Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #159

Perhaps their domestic relations laws treestar Jun 2018 #236

+1 RelativelyJones May 2018 #16

I do too.. nt Raine May 2018 #113

I don't support this...freedom of religion. Demsrule86 May 2018 #114

But it isn't. There is no religious requirement in Islam to wear these face-covering, dehumanizing Squinch May 2018 #131

That is your interpretation. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #160

Fair enough in those days, like the Bible treestar Jun 2018 #249

You don't have the right to tell others how to live or what to believe...freedom means Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #336

Hat is true treestar Jun 2018 #356

+2 dhol82 May 2018 #127

+1000 smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #152

What if I want to wear a mask? OnlinePoker May 2018 #8

It's a blanket ban, not just Islamic "fashion" ExciteBike66 May 2018 #30

You can't wear a mask. Unless you're a cop, then your balaclava is fine. JustABozoOnThisBus May 2018 #57

+1 treestar Jun 2018 #232

Islamophobia 101. guillaumeb May 2018 #29

does the koran demand women wear those things? if not, it is not islamophobia nt msongs May 2018 #31

It is classic Islamophobia, guillaumeb May 2018 #32

How? It isn't a requirement of Islam. And others, like Elizabeth Smart's captors, pnwmom May 2018 #38

It is specifically designed to target Muslims. guillaumeb May 2018 #91

No, it's designed to ensure that women aren't made invisible in the public sphere. n/t pnwmom May 2018 #95

Who are you to decide what the burqa means for those Muslim women guillaumeb May 2018 #97

This isn't about that. it's about the fact that the burka makes women invisible pnwmom May 2018 #98

That is your opinion as to what it means. guillaumeb May 2018 #99

It is a fact that the burka makes the wearer invisible, even to family members and friends pnwmom Jun 2018 #272

It is akin to the marijuana laws treestar Jun 2018 #233

It is a requirement of Islam to cover ones self. And by what right do you or I tell someone how to Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #168

How about a "you can't cover your face when in public" law? MicaelS May 2018 #48

Again, Islamophobia 101. guillaumeb May 2018 #92

Too bad leftynyc Jun 2018 #371

Islamaphobia involves culture as well as the Koran. HopeAgain May 2018 #53

The Maori people's culture used to include occasional Squinch May 2018 #62

That is the biggest false equivalency I have seen HopeAgain May 2018 #63

And saying its "headwear" is either showing ignorance Squinch May 2018 #65

It is head wear, and to ban it regardless of personal choice HopeAgain May 2018 #67

I can't help but conclude you have never seen one Squinch May 2018 #70

I see them all the time HopeAgain May 2018 #72

I just don't believe that. Maybe headscarves, maybe Squinch May 2018 #73

It's akin to calling a space suit "headwear" Coventina May 2018 #74

I think people often confuse hijab with niqab or burka, and they think we are objecting Squinch May 2018 #76

So if Trump proposed barring any woman wearing a burqua from immigrating to the US onenote May 2018 #143

That's kind of all over the place. Squinch May 2018 #146

In my area, the Trumpers have made it so Islamic women are afraid to wear Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #161

I have seen Burqas...that is not the point. It is call freedom...you ever see Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #169

None of these things you are referring to covers the face like a burka. Neither do the headscarves Squinch Jun 2018 #194

Actually not true...France banned the hijab...and in the end so will Denmark no doubt becaue this is Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #205

We are talking about the Danish law and the people in this thread. Squinch Jun 2018 #208

That is disingenuous treestar Jun 2018 #275

Yes it does...and it won't help women either. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #334

No, France did NOT ban the hijab. They only banned covering the face. Coventina Jun 2018 #212

France did ban it...and it is wrong and so is this. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #333

you are confusing two different things. Coventina Jun 2018 #341

It is discriminatory. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #343

Well, you need to take that up with the French. It's their history and their culture you're Coventina Jun 2018 #346

I am pointing out the hypocrisy of so called 'western democracies' and their what I consider a war Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #350

In what way are the French being hypocritical? Coventina Jun 2018 #355

I can get banning the Niqab and the burqa treestar Jun 2018 #273

No one is talking about banning the hijab. Squinch Jun 2018 #283

I was responding to a post about it being banned in France treestar Jun 2018 #286

And yet usually they don't. Squinch Jun 2018 #288

They can if they want to in western democracies treestar Jun 2018 #290

And no cultural patriarchal hatred of their gender is forcing them TO do it. Squinch Jun 2018 #297

There is a difference between the law and cultural pressure treestar Jun 2018 #300

It is Islamaphobia ...all of it. No so called free country has any business fining women for Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #335

A reminder on the terms: treestar Jun 2018 #263

If someone decided they wanted to wear a space suit treestar Jun 2018 #260

If you can see the person's face and are able to interact with facial expressions Coventina Jun 2018 #264

Semantics aside HopeAgain May 2018 #77

But there are cultural practices that we simply will not tolerate in our country, like Squinch May 2018 #78

What about the Hasid? You want to talk about mistreatment of women...But it seems Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #163

So much freedom. Squinch Jun 2018 #193

They are out and about aren't they? Without the Burqa, they won't be allowed out. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #202

Sounds like it is more of a problem christx30 Jun 2018 #213

And it will amount to nothing. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #214

No one is objecting to the hijab, though. The objection is to the garments that cover the face. Squinch Jun 2018 #218

One thing you may want to consider ... this law DOES give women the excuse to tell their oppressors mr_lebowski Jun 2018 #385

We are all free to wear those in the US if we want to treestar Jun 2018 #276

And ps, it is not false equivalency. There are Squinch May 2018 #69

If you live in the US that will never happen treestar Jun 2018 #298

It's a decent comparison, the question is where along the treestar Jun 2018 #240

That is one that could be universally forbidden treestar Jun 2018 #235

Exactly. guillaumeb May 2018 #93

And with the long history of European abuse of women, it seems hypocritical to me. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #170

Nice short history lesson. eom guillaumeb Jun 2018 #181

Thanks! I don't see how anyone can support such an obvious blow to personal freedom which will only Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #198

So we should continue and condone the cultural oppression of women because oppression of women Squinch Jun 2018 #196

I believe in freedom of religion...also why single out the Muslim religion...you want to see some Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #197

Burkas and niqabs make humans into Squinch Jun 2018 #200

That is your opinion. By what right do you claim... which entitles you to decide for everyone? Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #204

The same right that allows me to decide slavery is wrong, wife-beating is wrong and Squinch Jun 2018 #209

There's a line between those things and what to wear treestar Jun 2018 #309

Freedom of religion is a constitutional right in the United States thank God. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #345

There are plenty of cases ... MicaelS Jun 2018 #361

Not under Danish or any other Western law treestar Jun 2018 #284

You destroy your argument when you bring up Mormons... GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #330

Some mormons still live that way...they simply don't have state marriages and are left alone...but Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #331

I normally agree with you on DU. Obviously not here. GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #339

I should add that banning the burqa will not stop the cultural oppression of women. It will merely Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #199

No it won't. Those men won't suddenly start doing their own grocery shopping and picking their Squinch Jun 2018 #201

Believe me in a highly religious house...women will become prisoners without the Burqa. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #203

No I'm not. I've met many of the men who require this of their wives. They'll adapt. Squinch Jun 2018 #206

Men can't force them to do anything legally treestar Jun 2018 #315

Good point. There were no laws made against treestar Jun 2018 #311

Exactly right. This is wrong... Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #332

"Who are we to tell someone how to practice their religion?" oberliner Jun 2018 #167

The Quran also says it's ok for a husband to beat his wife madville Jun 2018 #191

Non religion based laws still apply treestar Jun 2018 #316

Supposing some odd female, not a Muslim treestar Jun 2018 #231

Burkas have nothing to do with Islam. Squinch May 2018 #60

Who are you to decide for those observant Muslims guillaumeb May 2018 #96

It has nothing to do with the religion. Squinch May 2018 #101

Not my question. guillaumeb May 2018 #103

That's the same as asking who are we to decide that any oppression is worth fighting. Squinch May 2018 #106

No, it is not the same. guillaumeb May 2018 #107

Are we wrong to prohibit female genital mutilation in this country? Even if we don't Squinch May 2018 #108

We allow male genital mutilation. guillaumeb May 2018 #109

Are you equating circumcision with female genital mutilation? If so, we have nothing Squinch May 2018 #111

FGM is illegal in most countries. guillaumeb May 2018 #115

You still haven't answered. Squinch May 2018 #117

Nice try. guillaumeb May 2018 #120

Still not answering. But the obvious answer is that of course it is right to prohibit FGM. Squinch May 2018 #121

Your question was an attempt at diversion. guillaumeb May 2018 #124

Aaaand we're back to the beginning. The burka has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. Squinch May 2018 #128

You are casting yourself as the decider of what the clothing means. guillaumeb May 2018 #129

I can see what the clothing does. Just as we can determine that mutilating women is wrong, Squinch May 2018 #133

Post deleted to allow you the last word. eom guillaumeb May 2018 #135

Do you ever feel like you are beating your head against a wall? smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #153

More and more often here. Squinch Jun 2018 #187

why would that not include both arguers? treestar Jun 2018 #321

Then you would be for banning Playboy and other porn? treestar Jun 2018 #320

But then if you want to outlaw it due to the subjugation motive you see behind it treestar Jun 2018 #319

There is a huge difference in telling women how they can dress and fining said women....than Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #165

So you're basically admitting it's based on a regressive option RhodeIslandOne Jun 2018 #210

There is no similarity ? treestar Jun 2018 #296

That is physically intrusive, so distinguishable treestar Jun 2018 #282

That is what I think should we ban habits for nuns? Demsrule86 May 2018 #116

One of my cousins was a Claretian Sister. guillaumeb May 2018 #119

Exactly. And many Catholic nuns covered their faces...some still do. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #166

Correct. guillaumeb Jun 2018 #180

Claretian veils don't cover the face. You do know the difference between a burka and a hijab, right? Squinch Jun 2018 #248

Some countries have tried to ban the hijab as well. guillaumeb Jun 2018 #307

And? That has nothing to do with this discussion. Squinch Jun 2018 #310

It illustrate the range of Islamophobia. guillaumeb Jun 2018 #312

Kay. Still has nothing to do with this discussion. Squinch Jun 2018 #314

The law is specifically about burkas, which cover the face. Nun's habits don't do that. Squinch May 2018 #136

I, for one, am sick of the nun comparison which is a false equivalency. Coventina May 2018 #137

Nuns habits are much more like the hijab. And no one is objecting to that. Squinch May 2018 #138

Exactly. Coventina May 2018 #139

Not a fair comparison. A hijab that covers the face - you don't know if it is a Doodley Jun 2018 #269

A hijab does NOT cover the face. A burka (which is what is being banned) and a niqab do. Squinch Jun 2018 #318

If that is the real motive, it is akin to objecting to the speaking of treestar Jun 2018 #326

it can be compared as to the regulation of clothing, however treestar Jun 2018 #325

Now you are just making stuff up. Coventina Jun 2018 #329

They would go out under my hypothetical treestar Jun 2018 #359

I am not going to indulge your weird fantasies that are not based on facts. Coventina Jun 2018 #364

Yes they do..Carmelite nuns did for many years and some still do. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #156

It has nothing to do with the religion. There is no Islamic rule that requires a burka. Squinch Jun 2018 #185

If it did, would you want it outlawed? treestar Jun 2018 #328

The look uncomfortable and certainly are a sign treestar Jun 2018 #324

You're misguided wonkwest Jun 2018 #150

The term describes a behavior. guillaumeb Jun 2018 #179

Cultural relativism in service to oppression wonkwest Jun 2018 #182

Oh, just stop it already! smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #189

I disagree. guillaumeb Jun 2018 #190

this kind of post indicates treestar Jun 2018 #360

He isn't logically right. He's just being obstinate. smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #367

Everyone feels that way about their opinions treestar Jun 2018 #374

+1 harun Jun 2018 #183

Thank you. eom guillaumeb Jun 2018 #184

They should get rid of their domestic violence laws also madville Jun 2018 #192

So I suppose you are also against Western women being forced... RhodeIslandOne Jun 2018 #211

While Islamaphobia may be the root of it. I still think it's a good thing. bitterross Jun 2018 #280

Good for Denmark Devil Child May 2018 #34

Denmark and America need to watch a Canadian sitcom called Eliot Rosewater May 2018 #51

So, women lose freedoms because others decide they are being subjugated? HopeAgain May 2018 #52

I just think it's hilarious.. christx30 May 2018 #81

That photo does put this all in a stark perspective, doesn't it? Squinch May 2018 #88

I always wonder about the lives of those women. They're in medical school wearing western Squinch May 2018 #89

Bingo. PoindexterOglethorpe May 2018 #104

Yup. I went to Iran a couple of years ago. dhol82 May 2018 #130

Isn't that what makes us free and them not? treestar Jun 2018 #256

But our customs and culture are based on individual liberty, christx30 Jun 2018 #386

A couple of guys in this thread really, really love them burkas. Squinch May 2018 #123

Are they all men? dhol82 May 2018 #132

No. The vociferous ones are men. Squinch May 2018 #134

I stand corrected. Some women have joined the fray. Unbelievable. Squinch Jun 2018 #351

I guess it is their right, however dhol82 Jun 2018 #352

No face coverings... this could get interesting in the future. fleabiscuit May 2018 #140

Interesting. There is a scientific/rational basis for that one treestar Jun 2018 #294

Ya, like maybe privacy. fleabiscuit Jun 2018 #365

People also don't seem to understand European CCTV culture wonkwest May 2018 #141

Should dress codes imposed on women of other religions be banned onenote May 2018 #144

The burqa obstructs the face wonkwest May 2018 #147

If there is abuse, it can be found like it was for the Amish or the followers of Warren Jeffs treestar Jun 2018 #302

False equivalency. The Amish and Menonnite men also have strict wardrobe Coventina Jun 2018 #148

That's what chaps my rear wonkwest Jun 2018 #149

so you believe that any dress requirements that Muslim women obey should be illegal? onenote Jun 2018 #155

France employers are allowed to ban he Hijab now. I find this disgusting. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #171

I think anything covering the face should be illegal, yes. Coventina Jun 2018 #177

No one in this thread has voiced any objection to any garment but the dehumanizing Squinch Jun 2018 #195

They are "forced" to stay in the same way treestar Jun 2018 #303

No, they are not forced the same way. You need to do more reading on the Amish and Mennonites. Coventina Jun 2018 #305

There is a truly fundamental difference Jake Stern Jun 2018 #261

I had notice too that little girls don't have to wear the stuff treestar Jun 2018 #255

Not presented GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #344

In Iran they have training hijabs for the little girls dhol82 Jun 2018 #353

Funny that on DU we semi regularly have threads where some members criticize western natiions GulfCoast66 May 2018 #145

I suspect the individual circumstances boil down to whether one has ever actually Squinch Jun 2018 #186

I often see them here... GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #188

It astounds me that Liberals can find any justiification to interfere with one of our most important Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #215

Keep telling yourself that no woman in the US has to don a burqa GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #219

Legally they don't treestar Jun 2018 #301

I do not disagree with any of that. GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #323

Maybe they do and maybe they don't. But it is not our job to ban and item of clothing just in case. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #340

Liberals are about people doing what they choose to do treestar Jun 2018 #244

I am against the Burqa and against lots of things people say...but I would not restrict free speech. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #216

Anything that covers a woman's face is restricting her free speech. Coventina Jun 2018 #217

It's the theory that some things should be up to the individual treestar Jun 2018 #238

We don't like to tell other countries what to do AlexSFCA Jun 2018 #268

good for Denmark rollin74 Jun 2018 #178

Good for Denmark Owl Jun 2018 #207

That is the reason our First Amendment is an advance treestar Jun 2018 #220

Freedon of Religion does not guarantee... zanana1 Jun 2018 #243

Would it be a First Amendment issue? Or Fourth / Fifth amendment? JustABozoOnThisBus Jun 2018 #322

As a non-religious woman I applaud this tiny crack in the wall of patriarchy nt SylviaD Jun 2018 #259

I support the law 100%; it is pro women AlexSFCA Jun 2018 #265

you don't think freedom of religion is a good idea? treestar Jun 2018 #289

I support freedom of religion AlexSFCA Jun 2018 #304

No one does those things any more treestar Jun 2018 #313

Well, yes they do. GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #368

do you have a real example treestar Jun 2018 #375

Where in the koran leftynyc Jun 2018 #370

Yet a women, even a non-Muslim, might treestar Jun 2018 #376

You will NEVER get me to believe leftynyc Jun 2018 #379

Dunno; this is another culture treestar Jun 2018 #383

Then they shouldn't move to the west leftynyc Jun 2018 #384

It is not pro-woman. EllieBC Jun 2018 #327

Time to stop treating women like possessions that should be hidden and subservient to Doodley Jun 2018 #267

Sooooo... revmclaren Jun 2018 #306

Good. romanic Jun 2018 #348

I think it's funny that no one seems to worry about all the women wearing tall spiked high heels luvMIdog Jun 2018 #354

We don't know what she's wearing, under the burqa. JustABozoOnThisBus Jun 2018 #358

Impairs the ability to run away too treestar Jun 2018 #362

Are men FORCING women to leftynyc Jun 2018 #372

In a Western society, the men cannot legally force treestar Jun 2018 #377

Not sure what that has to do with high heels leftynyc Jun 2018 #380

That is a different issue treestar Jun 2018 #381

How about doing away with full face motorcycle helmets too? fleabiscuit Jun 2018 #366

It's a good thing we are past the age of knighthood treestar Jun 2018 #378