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smirkymonkey

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153. Do you ever feel like you are beating your head against a wall?

Reply to Squinch (Reply #133)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 04:15 AM

Jun 2018

Just wondering.

Some people can be so obstinate.

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Denmark bans wearing the burqa in public [View all] brooklynite May 2018 OP

Men telling women what to wear, yet again. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #1

But, aren't the women wearing that covering which packman May 2018 #4

Sure, but you don't need men telling women what not to wear either. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #5

Agree 100% - BUT, Reality is what it is packman May 2018 #61

It will harm women more than help them. RW Islamophobes are rejoicing. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #75

You are saying the husbands will forbid women from leaving their homes. You admit Doodley Jun 2018 #270

I agree with you. Also, who knows what someone can hide under a burqa demosincebirth May 2018 #125

True but then it might radicalize those men treestar Jun 2018 #222

What men are you talking about? oberliner Jun 2018 #164

The majority male Danish Paliament (63%). I looked it up before I posted. Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2018 #174

The men should have recused themselves from voting oberliner Jun 2018 #176

It is amazing how laws have no effect treestar Jun 2018 #221

As a woman, I have mixed feelings about the subject PatSeg May 2018 #12

That's exactly how I feel. Nay May 2018 #19

Yes. treestar Jun 2018 #223

This is true PatSeg Jun 2018 #237

I think Muslim men should wear blindfolds YessirAtsaFact May 2018 #68

meh. marble falls May 2018 #85

Especially since they are the ones inflamed by seeing a woman's face or hair dhol82 May 2018 #126

Good analogy treestar Jun 2018 #224

It's always the women who have restrictions placed on them YessirAtsaFact Jun 2018 #271

In a western country with any sort of freedom such laws against wearing a burqa should not exist. Demsrule86 May 2018 #112

I basically agree. The only reason would be policing, Hortensis Jun 2018 #247

I can see that about security. I completely agree. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #337

Interesting article, thanks. I hope that school Hortensis Jun 2018 #347

I hope so too. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #349

Denmark's parliament is majority women oberliner Jun 2018 #162

Nope. I looked it up before I posted that. 37% women in 2017, down from a high of 39% Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2018 #173

That's still a pretty high precentage oberliner Jun 2018 #175

Sumptuary laws are ridiculous. malthaussen May 2018 #2

This is the most weird vote in Denmark ever... TomVilmer May 2018 #9

I support this. The burqa, and any of the other garments whose purpose is Squinch May 2018 #3

+1 eom LittleGirl May 2018 #6

"wouldn't allow people to require others ...". Your post takes away women's rights. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #7

Oh, fer fuck's sake. Just stop. Squinch May 2018 #10

You want different law. Yes. Let's stop men telling women what not to wear and what to wear. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #11

Give it up. Squinch May 2018 #13

+100 .. n/t obnoxiousdrunk May 2018 #66

Your making my head hurt Kilgore May 2018 #122

I supposed it's everyone's imagination leftynyc May 2018 #17

The law takes away the right of men to force women to wear those hot, uncomfortable pnwmom May 2018 #18

No. Does not. It FINES the WOMAN 134 Euros. Read the OP again. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #20

The Euros will come from the pocket of the man who is forcing the woman to hide herself. nt pnwmom May 2018 #25

You hope. And you hope there isn't violence as a result. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #27

The man who would commit violence against a woman because she had been fined pnwmom May 2018 #28

Now you are starting to get it. Punish the man, not the woman. Limit the perp, not the victim. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #35

Since the fine is being paid by the man, it punishes him. pnwmom May 2018 #40

You presume & hope. But the better law would directly address the coercion & not take women's rights Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #43

You presume and hope that all women wearing it are doing it out of free will. pnwmom May 2018 #44

No. I have written the opposite. Don't attempt to stuff words in my mouth. It not honorable debating Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #45

"nothing"? Reread what I wrote. Better laws go after the coercive men. The coercion is the problem. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #46

What would this better law be that would go after the men? How would it be enforced? n/t pnwmom May 2018 #59

It would have to make police act on every complaint & investigate any allegation of coercion. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #80

And what woman coerced to wear these things would be brave enough to make an allegation? pnwmom May 2018 #84

Some women are coerced by mother in laws and surrounding women. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #86

Banning the public wearing of these things supports women who'd rather not wear them. pnwmom May 2018 #94

On the surface it supports them. In practice it will harm & restrict more than it supports. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #100

It unnerved me because it's dehumanizing. That particular woman was a cipher, pnwmom May 2018 #102

The odd thing is the conditioning treestar Jun 2018 #229

I agree completely this is not freedom but oppression... Demsrule86 May 2018 #118

Somebody has to be brave enough treestar Jun 2018 #266

Not officially treestar Jun 2018 #225

Muslims in Denmark wearing burkas are newly converted... TomVilmer May 2018 #39

No, the law allows for wearing things over the face because of weather conditions. n/t pnwmom May 2018 #42

Yes - but who is to decide when it is properly cold! TomVilmer May 2018 #47

Unfortunately, in Denmark and pretty much everywhere else, ... most likely a man. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #87

One law leads to another treestar Jun 2018 #234

So basically you think the Danes should allow men to dehumanize their women, GulfCoast66 May 2018 #142

No. And no. Take an aspirin and reread when you are feeling more capable. Duh. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2018 #154

That is your take. What gives you the right to decide about other people's religion? Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #158

I have no interest in others religion GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #172

You falsely presume my experience. I too have encountered people wearing burkas. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #21

You being unnerved is not sufficient reason to deny a woman the right to wear all-covering clothing. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #36

I'm not convinced that any woman would choose to wear those hot, uncomfortable, pnwmom May 2018 #37

I'm not covinced any would choose except exceedingly few. But it is their right. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #41

That can be an underlying difficult issue for feminism treestar Jun 2018 #226

It's Not Just Hot Me. May 2018 #54

The "rule" went away quite a while ago, unless you're someone like Melania and Ivanka, pnwmom May 2018 #71

Good Me. May 2018 #79

Thanks for putting that together treestar Jun 2018 #230

My wife's niece works in Saudi Arabia currently and has to wear the OnDoutside May 2018 #105

I've read descriptions of what it's like to wear them and it's awful. pnwmom May 2018 #110

Yes, and she said that as soon as they get home, it's straight OnDoutside Jun 2018 #151

Some women choose the veil. What will happen is women in countries who do this won't be allowed out. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #157

Are those women choosing to wear it? fallout87 May 2018 #49

You don't strengthen women's rights by legislating away those rights. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #50

You seem to be good at telling women what to do and think dbackjon May 2018 #82

Nope. I'm telling the predominantly male Danish Parliament they should stop. Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #83

Female headcoverings have nothing to do with women's choice - but furthering male domination dbackjon May 2018 #90

I also support this. In Europe/America world Muslim men dress like westerners. Coventina May 2018 #14

Men telling women what not to wear is misogny. So is men telling women what to wear. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #23

Not buying what you're selling. Coventina May 2018 #33

But he certainly is pushing it hard. I'll take that Squinch May 2018 #55

Faux liberalism at its finest. Coventina May 2018 #56

There is a new community near where i work. Squinch May 2018 #58

Exactly. Not to mention that those who claim to do so "willingly" eissa May 2018 #64

It is tough to tell at what point a human being does not know their own mind treestar Jun 2018 #239

That is a different thing treestar Jun 2018 #227

This isn't about annoying Muslims. Millions of Muslim women wear western clothing. Coventina Jun 2018 #241

What about when there is a government that can decide that treestar Jun 2018 #242

Governments make decency laws all the time. Coventina Jun 2018 #246

That's because of who is in the government. treestar Jun 2018 #250

Then we would no longer be living in a free society and I would flee to one that was. Coventina Jun 2018 #252

The reason we are a free society treestar Jun 2018 #254

Our government has had to legislate in such areas many times. Coventina Jun 2018 #257

None of that is relevant to the issue and involves other issues treestar Jun 2018 #258

A hairshirt doesn't keep people from interacting with you. Coventina Jun 2018 #262

They can talk treestar Jun 2018 #274

Yes it absolutely does keep from social interaction. Coventina Jun 2018 #277

How do they prevent them from talking to other people? treestar Jun 2018 #278

Please read up on the science of communication Coventina Jun 2018 #279

Then being on the telephone is just as oppressive treestar Jun 2018 #281

Your comparisons are way off. Telephones enable a limited form of communication Coventina Jun 2018 #285

It is a choice, in the western nations, she does not have to wear the treestar Jun 2018 #287

If she wants that choice, she has no business is a free society. Coventina Jun 2018 #291

someone else wearing it does not treestar Jun 2018 #292

Yes it absolutely does. Again, read up on the science of communication. n/t Coventina Jun 2018 #293

It does not impact on your freedom not to wear one. treestar Jun 2018 #295

But facial expression IS required to understand meaning. Ask ANY psychologist. Coventina Jun 2018 #299

I am not rationalizing barbarism treestar Jun 2018 #308

I'm not oversimplifying anything. Coventina Jun 2018 #317

I find your comment horrifying... what you suggest would not create any sort of free society... Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #338

Well, I find your attitude horrifying, that it is OK to normalize a garment that does nothing Coventina Jun 2018 #342

Are you horrified at very high heels? treestar Jun 2018 #357

Yes, I am. n/t Coventina Jun 2018 #363

Last time I checked... GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #369

In Western countries, and not arrested for that? treestar Jun 2018 #373

This message was self-deleted by its author GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #382

It is about male domination treestar Jun 2018 #228

It has nothing to do with climate. I live in Arizona and have traveled Coventina Jun 2018 #245

Ski masks in the extreme cold? treestar Jun 2018 #251

I stated elsewhere in the thread that exceptions should be made for weather and health conditions. Coventina Jun 2018 #253

Yep. Punishing women for men's "weaknesses" eissa May 2018 #15

The law FINES the WOMEN. Why are you happy to see that? Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #22

Buying into your own subjugation has a price. eom eissa May 2018 #24

Please don't blame the victim. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #26

Exactly right...the husband or father forces the women to wear the burqa or they sit home... Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #159

Perhaps their domestic relations laws treestar Jun 2018 #236

+1 RelativelyJones May 2018 #16

I do too.. nt Raine May 2018 #113

I don't support this...freedom of religion. Demsrule86 May 2018 #114

But it isn't. There is no religious requirement in Islam to wear these face-covering, dehumanizing Squinch May 2018 #131

That is your interpretation. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #160

Fair enough in those days, like the Bible treestar Jun 2018 #249

You don't have the right to tell others how to live or what to believe...freedom means Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #336

Hat is true treestar Jun 2018 #356

+2 dhol82 May 2018 #127

+1000 smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #152

What if I want to wear a mask? OnlinePoker May 2018 #8

It's a blanket ban, not just Islamic "fashion" ExciteBike66 May 2018 #30

You can't wear a mask. Unless you're a cop, then your balaclava is fine. JustABozoOnThisBus May 2018 #57

+1 treestar Jun 2018 #232

Islamophobia 101. guillaumeb May 2018 #29

does the koran demand women wear those things? if not, it is not islamophobia nt msongs May 2018 #31

It is classic Islamophobia, guillaumeb May 2018 #32

How? It isn't a requirement of Islam. And others, like Elizabeth Smart's captors, pnwmom May 2018 #38

It is specifically designed to target Muslims. guillaumeb May 2018 #91

No, it's designed to ensure that women aren't made invisible in the public sphere. n/t pnwmom May 2018 #95

Who are you to decide what the burqa means for those Muslim women guillaumeb May 2018 #97

This isn't about that. it's about the fact that the burka makes women invisible pnwmom May 2018 #98

That is your opinion as to what it means. guillaumeb May 2018 #99

It is a fact that the burka makes the wearer invisible, even to family members and friends pnwmom Jun 2018 #272

It is akin to the marijuana laws treestar Jun 2018 #233

It is a requirement of Islam to cover ones self. And by what right do you or I tell someone how to Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #168

How about a "you can't cover your face when in public" law? MicaelS May 2018 #48

Again, Islamophobia 101. guillaumeb May 2018 #92

Too bad leftynyc Jun 2018 #371

Islamaphobia involves culture as well as the Koran. HopeAgain May 2018 #53

The Maori people's culture used to include occasional Squinch May 2018 #62

That is the biggest false equivalency I have seen HopeAgain May 2018 #63

And saying its "headwear" is either showing ignorance Squinch May 2018 #65

It is head wear, and to ban it regardless of personal choice HopeAgain May 2018 #67

I can't help but conclude you have never seen one Squinch May 2018 #70

I see them all the time HopeAgain May 2018 #72

I just don't believe that. Maybe headscarves, maybe Squinch May 2018 #73

It's akin to calling a space suit "headwear" Coventina May 2018 #74

I think people often confuse hijab with niqab or burka, and they think we are objecting Squinch May 2018 #76

So if Trump proposed barring any woman wearing a burqua from immigrating to the US onenote May 2018 #143

That's kind of all over the place. Squinch May 2018 #146

In my area, the Trumpers have made it so Islamic women are afraid to wear Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #161

I have seen Burqas...that is not the point. It is call freedom...you ever see Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #169

None of these things you are referring to covers the face like a burka. Neither do the headscarves Squinch Jun 2018 #194

Actually not true...France banned the hijab...and in the end so will Denmark no doubt becaue this is Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #205

We are talking about the Danish law and the people in this thread. Squinch Jun 2018 #208

That is disingenuous treestar Jun 2018 #275

Yes it does...and it won't help women either. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #334

No, France did NOT ban the hijab. They only banned covering the face. Coventina Jun 2018 #212

France did ban it...and it is wrong and so is this. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #333

you are confusing two different things. Coventina Jun 2018 #341

It is discriminatory. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #343

Well, you need to take that up with the French. It's their history and their culture you're Coventina Jun 2018 #346

I am pointing out the hypocrisy of so called 'western democracies' and their what I consider a war Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #350

In what way are the French being hypocritical? Coventina Jun 2018 #355

I can get banning the Niqab and the burqa treestar Jun 2018 #273

No one is talking about banning the hijab. Squinch Jun 2018 #283

I was responding to a post about it being banned in France treestar Jun 2018 #286

And yet usually they don't. Squinch Jun 2018 #288

They can if they want to in western democracies treestar Jun 2018 #290

And no cultural patriarchal hatred of their gender is forcing them TO do it. Squinch Jun 2018 #297

There is a difference between the law and cultural pressure treestar Jun 2018 #300

It is Islamaphobia ...all of it. No so called free country has any business fining women for Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #335

A reminder on the terms: treestar Jun 2018 #263

If someone decided they wanted to wear a space suit treestar Jun 2018 #260

If you can see the person's face and are able to interact with facial expressions Coventina Jun 2018 #264

Semantics aside HopeAgain May 2018 #77

But there are cultural practices that we simply will not tolerate in our country, like Squinch May 2018 #78

What about the Hasid? You want to talk about mistreatment of women...But it seems Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #163

So much freedom. Squinch Jun 2018 #193

They are out and about aren't they? Without the Burqa, they won't be allowed out. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #202

Sounds like it is more of a problem christx30 Jun 2018 #213

And it will amount to nothing. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #214

No one is objecting to the hijab, though. The objection is to the garments that cover the face. Squinch Jun 2018 #218

One thing you may want to consider ... this law DOES give women the excuse to tell their oppressors mr_lebowski Jun 2018 #385

We are all free to wear those in the US if we want to treestar Jun 2018 #276

And ps, it is not false equivalency. There are Squinch May 2018 #69

If you live in the US that will never happen treestar Jun 2018 #298

It's a decent comparison, the question is where along the treestar Jun 2018 #240

That is one that could be universally forbidden treestar Jun 2018 #235

Exactly. guillaumeb May 2018 #93

And with the long history of European abuse of women, it seems hypocritical to me. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #170

Nice short history lesson. eom guillaumeb Jun 2018 #181

Thanks! I don't see how anyone can support such an obvious blow to personal freedom which will only Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #198

So we should continue and condone the cultural oppression of women because oppression of women Squinch Jun 2018 #196

I believe in freedom of religion...also why single out the Muslim religion...you want to see some Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #197

Burkas and niqabs make humans into Squinch Jun 2018 #200

That is your opinion. By what right do you claim... which entitles you to decide for everyone? Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #204

The same right that allows me to decide slavery is wrong, wife-beating is wrong and Squinch Jun 2018 #209

There's a line between those things and what to wear treestar Jun 2018 #309

Freedom of religion is a constitutional right in the United States thank God. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #345

There are plenty of cases ... MicaelS Jun 2018 #361

Not under Danish or any other Western law treestar Jun 2018 #284

You destroy your argument when you bring up Mormons... GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #330

Some mormons still live that way...they simply don't have state marriages and are left alone...but Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #331

I normally agree with you on DU. Obviously not here. GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #339

I should add that banning the burqa will not stop the cultural oppression of women. It will merely Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #199

No it won't. Those men won't suddenly start doing their own grocery shopping and picking their Squinch Jun 2018 #201

Believe me in a highly religious house...women will become prisoners without the Burqa. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #203

No I'm not. I've met many of the men who require this of their wives. They'll adapt. Squinch Jun 2018 #206

Men can't force them to do anything legally treestar Jun 2018 #315

Good point. There were no laws made against treestar Jun 2018 #311

Exactly right. This is wrong... Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #332

"Who are we to tell someone how to practice their religion?" oberliner Jun 2018 #167

The Quran also says it's ok for a husband to beat his wife madville Jun 2018 #191

Non religion based laws still apply treestar Jun 2018 #316

Supposing some odd female, not a Muslim treestar Jun 2018 #231

Burkas have nothing to do with Islam. Squinch May 2018 #60

Who are you to decide for those observant Muslims guillaumeb May 2018 #96

It has nothing to do with the religion. Squinch May 2018 #101

Not my question. guillaumeb May 2018 #103

That's the same as asking who are we to decide that any oppression is worth fighting. Squinch May 2018 #106

No, it is not the same. guillaumeb May 2018 #107

Are we wrong to prohibit female genital mutilation in this country? Even if we don't Squinch May 2018 #108

We allow male genital mutilation. guillaumeb May 2018 #109

Are you equating circumcision with female genital mutilation? If so, we have nothing Squinch May 2018 #111

FGM is illegal in most countries. guillaumeb May 2018 #115

You still haven't answered. Squinch May 2018 #117

Nice try. guillaumeb May 2018 #120

Still not answering. But the obvious answer is that of course it is right to prohibit FGM. Squinch May 2018 #121

Your question was an attempt at diversion. guillaumeb May 2018 #124

Aaaand we're back to the beginning. The burka has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. Squinch May 2018 #128

You are casting yourself as the decider of what the clothing means. guillaumeb May 2018 #129

I can see what the clothing does. Just as we can determine that mutilating women is wrong, Squinch May 2018 #133

Post deleted to allow you the last word. eom guillaumeb May 2018 #135

Do you ever feel like you are beating your head against a wall? smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #153

More and more often here. Squinch Jun 2018 #187

why would that not include both arguers? treestar Jun 2018 #321

Then you would be for banning Playboy and other porn? treestar Jun 2018 #320

But then if you want to outlaw it due to the subjugation motive you see behind it treestar Jun 2018 #319

There is a huge difference in telling women how they can dress and fining said women....than Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #165

So you're basically admitting it's based on a regressive option RhodeIslandOne Jun 2018 #210

There is no similarity ? treestar Jun 2018 #296

That is physically intrusive, so distinguishable treestar Jun 2018 #282

That is what I think should we ban habits for nuns? Demsrule86 May 2018 #116

One of my cousins was a Claretian Sister. guillaumeb May 2018 #119

Exactly. And many Catholic nuns covered their faces...some still do. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #166

Correct. guillaumeb Jun 2018 #180

Claretian veils don't cover the face. You do know the difference between a burka and a hijab, right? Squinch Jun 2018 #248

Some countries have tried to ban the hijab as well. guillaumeb Jun 2018 #307

And? That has nothing to do with this discussion. Squinch Jun 2018 #310

It illustrate the range of Islamophobia. guillaumeb Jun 2018 #312

Kay. Still has nothing to do with this discussion. Squinch Jun 2018 #314

The law is specifically about burkas, which cover the face. Nun's habits don't do that. Squinch May 2018 #136

I, for one, am sick of the nun comparison which is a false equivalency. Coventina May 2018 #137

Nuns habits are much more like the hijab. And no one is objecting to that. Squinch May 2018 #138

Exactly. Coventina May 2018 #139

Not a fair comparison. A hijab that covers the face - you don't know if it is a Doodley Jun 2018 #269

A hijab does NOT cover the face. A burka (which is what is being banned) and a niqab do. Squinch Jun 2018 #318

If that is the real motive, it is akin to objecting to the speaking of treestar Jun 2018 #326

it can be compared as to the regulation of clothing, however treestar Jun 2018 #325

Now you are just making stuff up. Coventina Jun 2018 #329

They would go out under my hypothetical treestar Jun 2018 #359

I am not going to indulge your weird fantasies that are not based on facts. Coventina Jun 2018 #364

Yes they do..Carmelite nuns did for many years and some still do. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #156

It has nothing to do with the religion. There is no Islamic rule that requires a burka. Squinch Jun 2018 #185

If it did, would you want it outlawed? treestar Jun 2018 #328

The look uncomfortable and certainly are a sign treestar Jun 2018 #324

You're misguided wonkwest Jun 2018 #150

The term describes a behavior. guillaumeb Jun 2018 #179

Cultural relativism in service to oppression wonkwest Jun 2018 #182

Oh, just stop it already! smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #189

I disagree. guillaumeb Jun 2018 #190

this kind of post indicates treestar Jun 2018 #360

He isn't logically right. He's just being obstinate. smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #367

Everyone feels that way about their opinions treestar Jun 2018 #374

+1 harun Jun 2018 #183

Thank you. eom guillaumeb Jun 2018 #184

They should get rid of their domestic violence laws also madville Jun 2018 #192

So I suppose you are also against Western women being forced... RhodeIslandOne Jun 2018 #211

While Islamaphobia may be the root of it. I still think it's a good thing. bitterross Jun 2018 #280

Good for Denmark Devil Child May 2018 #34

Denmark and America need to watch a Canadian sitcom called Eliot Rosewater May 2018 #51

So, women lose freedoms because others decide they are being subjugated? HopeAgain May 2018 #52

I just think it's hilarious.. christx30 May 2018 #81

That photo does put this all in a stark perspective, doesn't it? Squinch May 2018 #88

I always wonder about the lives of those women. They're in medical school wearing western Squinch May 2018 #89

Bingo. PoindexterOglethorpe May 2018 #104

Yup. I went to Iran a couple of years ago. dhol82 May 2018 #130

Isn't that what makes us free and them not? treestar Jun 2018 #256

But our customs and culture are based on individual liberty, christx30 Jun 2018 #386

A couple of guys in this thread really, really love them burkas. Squinch May 2018 #123

Are they all men? dhol82 May 2018 #132

No. The vociferous ones are men. Squinch May 2018 #134

I stand corrected. Some women have joined the fray. Unbelievable. Squinch Jun 2018 #351

I guess it is their right, however dhol82 Jun 2018 #352

No face coverings... this could get interesting in the future. fleabiscuit May 2018 #140

Interesting. There is a scientific/rational basis for that one treestar Jun 2018 #294

Ya, like maybe privacy. fleabiscuit Jun 2018 #365

People also don't seem to understand European CCTV culture wonkwest May 2018 #141

Should dress codes imposed on women of other religions be banned onenote May 2018 #144

The burqa obstructs the face wonkwest May 2018 #147

If there is abuse, it can be found like it was for the Amish or the followers of Warren Jeffs treestar Jun 2018 #302

False equivalency. The Amish and Menonnite men also have strict wardrobe Coventina May 2018 #148

That's what chaps my rear wonkwest Jun 2018 #149

so you believe that any dress requirements that Muslim women obey should be illegal? onenote Jun 2018 #155

France employers are allowed to ban he Hijab now. I find this disgusting. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #171

I think anything covering the face should be illegal, yes. Coventina Jun 2018 #177

No one in this thread has voiced any objection to any garment but the dehumanizing Squinch Jun 2018 #195

They are "forced" to stay in the same way treestar Jun 2018 #303

No, they are not forced the same way. You need to do more reading on the Amish and Mennonites. Coventina Jun 2018 #305

There is a truly fundamental difference Jake Stern Jun 2018 #261

I had notice too that little girls don't have to wear the stuff treestar Jun 2018 #255

Not presented GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #344

In Iran they have training hijabs for the little girls dhol82 Jun 2018 #353

Funny that on DU we semi regularly have threads where some members criticize western natiions GulfCoast66 May 2018 #145

I suspect the individual circumstances boil down to whether one has ever actually Squinch Jun 2018 #186

I often see them here... GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #188

It astounds me that Liberals can find any justiification to interfere with one of our most important Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #215

Keep telling yourself that no woman in the US has to don a burqa GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #219

Legally they don't treestar Jun 2018 #301

I do not disagree with any of that. GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #323

Maybe they do and maybe they don't. But it is not our job to ban and item of clothing just in case. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #340

Liberals are about people doing what they choose to do treestar Jun 2018 #244

I am against the Burqa and against lots of things people say...but I would not restrict free speech. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #216

Anything that covers a woman's face is restricting her free speech. Coventina Jun 2018 #217

It's the theory that some things should be up to the individual treestar Jun 2018 #238

We don't like to tell other countries what to do AlexSFCA Jun 2018 #268

good for Denmark rollin74 Jun 2018 #178

Good for Denmark Owl Jun 2018 #207

That is the reason our First Amendment is an advance treestar Jun 2018 #220

Freedon of Religion does not guarantee... zanana1 Jun 2018 #243

Would it be a First Amendment issue? Or Fourth / Fifth amendment? JustABozoOnThisBus Jun 2018 #322

As a non-religious woman I applaud this tiny crack in the wall of patriarchy nt SylviaD Jun 2018 #259

I support the law 100%; it is pro women AlexSFCA Jun 2018 #265

you don't think freedom of religion is a good idea? treestar Jun 2018 #289

I support freedom of religion AlexSFCA Jun 2018 #304

No one does those things any more treestar Jun 2018 #313

Well, yes they do. GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #368

do you have a real example treestar Jun 2018 #375

Where in the koran leftynyc Jun 2018 #370

Yet a women, even a non-Muslim, might treestar Jun 2018 #376

You will NEVER get me to believe leftynyc Jun 2018 #379

Dunno; this is another culture treestar Jun 2018 #383

Then they shouldn't move to the west leftynyc Jun 2018 #384

It is not pro-woman. EllieBC Jun 2018 #327

Time to stop treating women like possessions that should be hidden and subservient to Doodley Jun 2018 #267

Sooooo... revmclaren Jun 2018 #306

Good. romanic Jun 2018 #348

I think it's funny that no one seems to worry about all the women wearing tall spiked high heels luvMIdog Jun 2018 #354

We don't know what she's wearing, under the burqa. JustABozoOnThisBus Jun 2018 #358

Impairs the ability to run away too treestar Jun 2018 #362

Are men FORCING women to leftynyc Jun 2018 #372

In a Western society, the men cannot legally force treestar Jun 2018 #377

Not sure what that has to do with high heels leftynyc Jun 2018 #380

That is a different issue treestar Jun 2018 #381

How about doing away with full face motorcycle helmets too? fleabiscuit Jun 2018 #366

It's a good thing we are past the age of knighthood treestar Jun 2018 #378