Report: PA President Mahmoud Abbas worked as KGB agent in Damascus during 80's

[shira]

33. You can't be pro-peace when you refuse to call out evil for what it is....

You're not even being asked to criticize or condemn the Palestinian people, only their vile leadership.....and you can't even do that.

The things you defend-the occupation and in particular the settlement project that Ben-Gurion always opposed have never made Israel any more secure or brought peace any closer.

It's not that I defend the occupation or settlements. If there could be a genuine peace tomorrow between the 2 sides, I'd be first in line to end the occupation & settlements. That's pro-peace, by the way. Ending the occupation and settlements without a genuine peace b/w the 2 sides is not pro-peace by any stretch, Ken.

I want BOTH sides to have better leaders-but we both know that nothing your hero Netanyahu(the man whose hate-based, war-based policies you always unquestioningly defend in this group) does or wants to do can ever lead to peace, or to a change for the better in the Palestinian leadership. Why even pretend otherwise? And why pretend that, if bigotry is even part of the reason Palestinians seek to change the situation, it is somehow possible to militarily crush bigotry? People can't be subjugated into tolerance. And you always forget the fact that, when the Palestinian leadership did make major changes in tactics in the Nineties, all they got for changng was MORE settlements and more repression.

1. Netanyahu is a blowhard rightwinger, not my hero. I know saying that makes things easier for you. I don't like assholes on either end of the political spectrum, left or right. I'm liberal, centrist.

2. It's not about militarily crushing bigotry. It's about calling it out, naming and shaming. Make Abbas and Hamas change their ways. But I know you're against all criticism of Palestinian leadership, probably thinking it's bigoted to condemn them.

3. The Palestinian leadership has never made changes in tactics. The war just continued. Incitement increased, terror increased.

The most "pro-Israel" position a person can take is to oppose the settlements and to call for Palestinians to be treated like human beings who are capable of living in peace with Israel if Israel as a country gives them breathing space and treats them like human beings rather than what Shamir called them.

Sure, opposing settlements works if the Palestinian leadership is peaceful and means well. Otherwise, that's doomed to fail as it has for 20 years now. Palestinians are treated like human beings by Israel. I'm not sure any other country on the planet would treat Palestinians as well as Israel if Palestinians were at war with any other country, doing to that country what Palestinians have done to Israelis for 70 years now.

BTW if you're going to denounce violence on the Palestinian side, will you agree that the Israelis were wrong to deport Mubarak Awad, the man who was trying to get Palestinians to use Gandhian tactics? And that no nonviolent protest marches and rallies in the Wesrt bank should ever be violently broken up by the IDF?

I never heard of that guy before but here's what I found rather quickly, which goes to show you don't know what you're talking about, don't care to know, or you know and you're just bullshitting....

http://972mag.com/is-nonviolence-on-the-rise-in-palestine-an-interview-with-dr-mubarak-awad/100248/
What are the facts about Mubarak Awad? He was born in the eastern part of Jerusalem. He was a citizen of Jordan. He was offered Israeli citizenship but refused. He moved to the United States and accepted American citizenery. He came back from time to time on a tourist’s visa. He advocated civil insurrection including destruction of public property as complimenatry to violent resistance. Israel deported the non-resident.

One only has to look at Mr Awad’s writings, such as appeared in the summer issue of Palestine Studies in 1984. He advises Palestinian Arabs to “attempt to block roads, prevent communications, cut electricity, telephone and water lines, and prevent the movement of equipment . . .

Awad also endorsed armed sedition of other Palestinian Arabs against the Jewish state:

“This does not determine the methods open to Palestinians on the outside; nor does it constitute a rejection of the concept of armed struggle. It does not rule out the possibility that the struggle on the inside may turn into an armed struggle at a later stage.“

In a public lecture in accordance with the then PLO charter he refused to even recognize Israel`s right to exist.

He still does not recognize Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state but seeks to return millions of descendants of refugees to flood Israel and end it as a Jewish state.